Jeni Smith, Networking Expert (Episode 56) | Jeni wants you to take networking seriously (but not too seriously!)
For this episode of the Research Adjacent podcast Sarah is talking to Jeni Smith. Jeni is a networking expert and founder of NetKno which specialises in helping academics (and others) network more effectively.
The business of creating connections
Jeni is a natural connector who has worked in networking, one way or another, for her entire career. That doesn’t mean it started well. Recounting her first business networking experience as a student she says:
“Oh, my word was I terrified. No one prepared me for it. I was thrown into this room full of what I deemed to be grown-ups in suits and given a name badge and just expected to know how to talk to them. So I hid in the toilets for most of that event.”
She eventually got the hang of it and discovered a deep love for networking and the impact it can have. On graduating she ‘invented’ a job which would let her network full-time, essentially as a business matchmaker. She then went on to do various roles in events and business support – all with a heavy networking element – before starting her own business in 2020.
“I really loved connecting people. So I talked to someone and I’d be like, Oh, you need to speak to this person, and you need to speak to this person.”
Her matchmaking abilities have even extended out of the workplace when a couple she introduced professionally went on to get married and have 3 children!
Networking in academia
Through NetKno Jeni now delivers talks, runs training and offers networking advice. Her focus on networking in academia came about serendipitously initially being invited in to train students, then staff. She discovered that although the personal confidence barriers to networking are the same in both business and academia, researchers network for very different reasons.
“They often accidentally create these echo chambers. So if they’re only going out and speaking to people who know the things that they already know, they’re not actually learning anything new. I try and encourage academics is to build a bit more diverse knowledge networks. So looking to engage with people outside of their discipline, outside of their preferred methodology, they can spark a lot of innovative ideas and collaborations, potentially that create richer, more rigorous research. But that’s scary.”
Becoming connected to the academic world has prompted Jeni to start a part-time PhD on, you guessed it, networking.
“Since starting the PhD, it’s given me the words to be able to express and to identify phenomenon that I’ve witnessed and lived for for 20 years. Being able to say this is why, and this is what it’s called, and here’s the academic research to back it up that has really empowered me a lot, and it’s given me the language and a lot more confidence.”
Flipping the focus
As someone who has a very enthusiastic presentation style complete with puppets and props, having this intellectual foundation has helped Jeni boost her credibility. Although she has found that no-one is immune to feeling like they don’t know enough. When she asks audience what stops them networking more, feeling like they don’t know enough is a huge barrier.
“And that’s literally the opposite of what networking is for. The reason to go networking is to learn. The idea of not going because you don’t know enough, it’s like not going to school because I don’t know the alphabet. The reason you go to school is to learn the alphabet. The reason that we go networking is to learn and or to look for ways that we can add value to each other, rather than taking.”
Sparking success
And adding value is key for Jeni. Ultimately for her, networking is about helping people and being a small part of their success.
“You just don’t know where these conversations lead. Often, people, pop up a year later, or six months or six years later, and they’re like, remember you told me about this person. Well, now I’m doing X, Y and Z, and it’s amazing. In academia especially, because the research that people go on to do and the knowledge that they create can genuinely change the world. It absolutely blows my mind.”
Find out more
Theme music by Lemon Music Studios from Pixabay
Episode Transcript
Jeni Smith 00:01
Oh my word, was I terrified. I was like, thrown into this room full of what I deemed to be grown ups in suits and given a name badge and just expected to know how to talk to them. In academia, especially, I think there’s a sense of, unless I have all the answers, I shouldn’t be in the room, and that’s literally the opposite of what networking is for. Like, the reason to go networking is to learn.
Sarah McLusky 00:29
Hello there. I’m Sarah McLusky, and this is Research Adjacent. Each episode, I talk to amazing research adjacent professionals about what they do and why it makes a difference. Keep listening to find out why we think the research-adjacent space is where the real magic happens. Hello and welcome to Research Adjacent episode 56 I’m your host, Sarah McLusky, and coming up today, I have a brilliant conversation with networking expert Jeni Smith. Now you might already be wondering why Jeni qualifies as research adjacent well. It’s because she specialises in helping researchers, including academics and students, to develop their networks and their networking skills. Through her company NetKno, she delivers talks and workshops as well as one to one support. A natural connector Jeni has been working in networking in some way, shape or form for 15 years, and is so obsessed with it, she is even doing a part time PhD on, you guessed it, networking. We talk about why business folks and academics network for different reasons, overcoming common barriers to networking, and why most people have the wrong idea about what networking is for. Oh, and then there’s also the fact that she is responsible for at least one marriage and three children. Listen on to hear Jeni’s story. Welcome along to the podcast, Jeni. Thank you so much for coming along and joining us today. Could we begin by hearing a little bit about what it is that you do?
Jeni Smith 01:56
Yeah, hi. Thanks for having me. Sarah. So my name is Jeni Smith, and I do two things. Well, I do lots of things, and mostly they all encompass anything to do with networking. I’m a bit obsessed with networks, networking, and so I run my own business, which is called NetKno which is a networking agency, networking consultancy, based in the North East of England and Durham. But I get to work with people all over the world, and that’s predominant, that’s predominantly either business people who are looking to network to grow their businesses, or academics who are looking to network for knowledge. And sometimes the two worlds collide, which is where my obsession area comes in. And so the other thing that I do around networks and networking is I’m three years into my PhD researching networks, and how, specifically how networking can help bridge that gap between those two worlds. So, yeah, anything to do with networks.
Sarah McLusky 02:07
Anything to do with networks. Well, I think the reason that you came onto my radar is because you, you have found this kind of niche in specialising in networking for academics, people in the research world. So what’s that all about? Why is that such an interesting area?
Jeni Smith 03:07
It happened as most niches do totally by accident, and I think so, I’ve always like for the last 20 years, professionally, I’ve attended networking events, either as a full time networker, which is a job that I totally invented in Liverpool, so I didn’t pay for like food or wine for about a year. That was nice. I ran a network in Cumbria, again, that was for business people. And then over here in the North East, ran a network for a number of years. So I’ve always been a networker in a professional context. But then when I started this business, I had links into academia and I’d actually, it probably it goes back to utilizing the Durham University’s MBA program where you can, as a business person, you can take a real life project to the university, and then a student does some research into it, and it gives your business a bit of credibility, and it gives them a live project. And that’s probably where it stems from originally. And then that relationship and that link into a University developed, and when I launched the business helping people to network, which is usually through like workshops and training and things, and the university asked me to come in and do some training for some of their students. And then over time, it went to some of their staff. And then other universities came in. And then that, that just kind of snow, the snowball effect, hit in. And then I found that networking barriers, although the barriers were very similar for business people and academics, because they’re all humans. They’re all people. Yeah, the way in which they network was very different, and their objectives for networking was very different. So I got to learn through working with academics about the world of academia, and then I just got sucked into it, because it’s just wonderful. And then went to the Dark Side a few years ago, and to start my own PhD, which has allowed me a lot more insight. So now being able to come from, you know, as an insider, I guess, perspective, to help understand and then deliver better training, not just to the academics, but also to business people who want to engage with academics, and vice versa. So it’s provided a lot of like, empathy, I guess, and insight. So that’s been really useful. So, yeah, very by serendipitous interaction snowballed over the years. Yeah interesting. So you said there that academics, they’re they’re sort of, you know, obviously, as you say, network is networking. They’re humans, but their reasons for networking are different. Yeah, very different. Interesting. So, networking for knowledge is is absolutely like for business people and for academics is the most valuable resource that it provides. However, business people’s objectives is usually, you know, almost survival for want of a better phrase. Businesses, in order to keep being a business, they need to get clients, they need to sell their products and services. So often they network for those with that mindset. Whereas in academia, it’s more networking in very niche often academics are encouraged and go to conferences to meet people in their own very specific sector, very specific field of expertise. Whereas business people often network a bit more broadly. So the problem with networking in such a niche way, with you know, is they often accidentally create these echo chambers of knowledge for themselves. So if they’re only you know, going out and speaking to people who know the things that they already know, they’re not actually learning anything new. So a big, big kind of shift that I try and encourage academics is to build a bit more diverse knowledge networks, so looking to engage with people outside of their discipline, outside of their preferred methodology, outside of their you know that, but in turn, that equates to outside of their comfort zone, because then they encounter a lot of barriers, such as language, you know, they use a lot of different acronyms and different you know, it could be someone in geography would benefit from speaking to someone in engineering. And there’s actually a lot of transfer for transfer, transfer, and they can spark a lot of innovative ideas and collaborations, potentially, that create richer, more rigorous research. But that’s scary. It’s scary to do that we’re not naturally. We’re naturally drawn to people similar to ourselves, and in academia, that’s that’s encouraged, and that’s quite ingrained in the culture. So it’s it takes a lot of courage to kind of step out of that and proactively look for people. And people haven’t got time as well. They’re busy. So there’s a number of different barriers, but often that objective of networking, to find the experts in your field, to access knowledge, which is wonderful, but it actually often you could get so much more if you could network outside of that.
Sarah McLusky 08:06
Yeah, and definitely with the driver is now for more interdisciplinary collaboration, yeah,
Jeni Smith 08:14
so and beyond academia, and obviously with impact rising up the agenda, you know, having real world interactions. And beyond academia, I’m finding that academics have to go out and network with people who aren’t academics, which in that that’s a whole other level of because the power dynamics are different, the hierarchies are different, and especially people you know, who have built up success in their in their field of research, asking them to give up all that power by stepping outside of it, where citations and publications mean literally diddly squat. People outside of academia don’t understand it. They don’t it doesn’t mean anything. Asking them to do that, that’s an even more vulnerable thing. So there’s a lot of vulnerability there. There’s a lot of fear of the unknown, and you know, there’s a lot of research around the gaps that exist between the two, but it often comes back to to the person, the human, and the barriers that they encounter.
Sarah McLusky 09:11
Yeah oh, really interesting stuff, and certainly rings true with a lot of the experiences I’ve had of working in the research world. So you’ve, said that you’re basically a professional networker. Isn’t that? What does that entail is that, like you’ve said, You do training and things like that. Do you also organize events?
Jeni Smith 09:29
No, I used to organize events. I spent a number of lots of years doing that. So I’ll consult on event design now, sometimes, if and when it’s it’s needed, or if it’s part of another project, um, I’ll help design the experiences for delegates and things. But often, yeah, usually it’s it’s workshops, it’s training and it’s consultancy around creating networking strategies. I really love helping people be strategic with their networking activities. So helping them understand, you know. Just identify what it is they want from that investment of time and resource and energy, what do they want in return, and then where they can position themselves in order to get that return on investment. Also helping people build confidence, I do some kind of a bit more longer term in interventions, working with individuals to help them work out what their strategies are, but also what their personal barriers are and things and and helping them overcome those over a long period. I like, I love doing that. That’s that’s really cool. Um, yeah, large consultancy projects for larger businesses. There’s a lot I found, of universities, um, and just large organizations who, since lockdown, especially, and since the rise of hybrid, remote working, have found a lot of disconnect internally. And so there’s a lot more institutions, organizations who are investing in internal networks. So I’ll do some I do you know quite a bit more I’ve seen in the last couple of years of that work, which, again, is really fascinating. It’s really interesting.
Sarah McLusky 11:04
I can imagine, yeah, that that’s certainly, you know, people, colleagues working together now, who maybe never actually physically come together in the same space, Be quite a challenge
Jeni Smith 11:14
absolutely, yeah, yeah. But similarly, like how, you know, I said about academics and business people kind of they’re different. And even within, within universities, I find you’ve got your professional services and you’ve got the academics and never the two shall mix or they struggle again. It’s language, timelines, these issues, these barriers, these differences that they have, create these segregations, often within an institution. So there’s a lot of internal networks, yeah, but, and a lot of training and workshops and stuff that can help to build, to pull down those barriers and build the bridges inside as well as outside, which,
Sarah McLusky 11:51
again, no, definitely, you’re, you’re speaking to
Jeni Smith 11:55
speak in the love language. Yes, absolutely. Um, so
Sarah McLusky 11:59
you’ve said, this is something that you’ve done for a long time. What’s been your journey into this work?
Jeni Smith 12:06
Oh, so I started out in the world of networking. Originally, when I was an undergraduate in Liverpool at John Moores, I answered one of those random emails that was like, Do you want some work experience in a creative sector? And I was like, I want some work experience in a creative sector. Um, so applied for that and ended up doing some voluntary work at this really small business at the time, um, called Milky Tea, that did CGI and animation and worked directly with the owner of the business, which was great experience, as you know, a business student, I was learning about a business by being in it. So that was really cool and but he took me along to my first ever networking event, and oh my word was I terrified. Nobody prepared me for it. Sarah, like I was literally and I was really hungover at the time, which didn’t help but I was like, thrown into this room full of what I deem to be grown ups in suits and given a name badge and just expected to know how to talk to them. So I hid in the toilets for most of that, it was genuinely scary. But John took me to another event like few weeks later, when I’d got over the drama and eventually plucked up the courage to go and speak to someone, and I still remember that person. His name was Livingston. He upcycled furniture, and he was more scared than I was, so he the two of us just kind of like joked and chatted the rest of the night, and just from then on, I think I just fell in love with networking, and networking was a really big part of the culture in Liverpool, like people, just it’s part of what you do. You go out and you talk to people and and, and it just gave me access to all these different people. And originally, you know, I’m from a tiny little village in Cumbria, so being able to suddenly go out and talk to these people who are doing all these different things, and they’re all different ages and different sectors, and it was just amazing. So that’s how I first got into networking. Fast forward a couple of years to when I graduated and invented my first job around networking, which was found that going to events, I’d speak to people who didn’t have the time to go networking, so they’d complain about that, or they didn’t like it, like genuinely hated it, the experience and and I also found that I was quite naturally I really love connecting people. So I talked to someone, I’d be like, Oh, you need to speak to this person, and you need to speak to this person, and it’s quite hard, that’s quite a hard thing to monetize. So I invented a job where I went networking full time. So I would take on a client, one from each industry, so there was no conflict. I would do a kind of corporate analysis of their business. I understood what they did and who their target markets were. And then I just used to go out to like five or six events every day, Monday to Friday, and network and just talk to people. And it was at the time, it was brilliant. I could not do that now, however, I have definitely, yeah, that ship has sailed, but for that one year that I did, it was brilliant, and I got to speak to loads of people. And actually, that was the first time I went into a university. John Moore invited me back in and to give a talk to their students about what networking was. And that was the first kind of interaction, originally, of delivering a networking workshop. And so after a year of doing that, I was spent and I learned so much, yeah, from going to all these events that I flipped that, and when I moved back home to Cumbria, launched my second business, which was hosting events. So that’s when I started organizing events, and having been a delegate, a very intense delegate, to so many things I kind of knew what works and what didn’t, just through experience and observations. So then I started hosting events, which was business number two in networks, and I loved that, and it was tough to be honest. That was really hard because people didn’t really network then in Carlisle, people knew each other, but they didn’t go to events to get to know each other. So it was quite a slow burner, but managed to keep it going for, I think, four or five years, and then I met my husband, the love story that is, and in Magaluf, of all the places, he’s a North East lad. He’s from Durham, so I ended up moving over here. And then, you know, fast forward a few years, and I got myself a job at a network that was already running here, and kind of approached them and said, Please give me a job. Let me run your network, which he eventually did. So I was the managing director of a network in the North East for about two or three years called the Mussel Club, which was going before me, and it’s still going now. It’s a great network. And then took a few years out of networks and networking, and ended up working in the startup world and supporting tech startups with like, fully funded support, which I loved. And part of my passion for networking and running a network is that you get to know all these different people and get to be part of their business journeys, which I absolutely adored. So being able to support them with fully funded all kinds of different things was great. But then when I went on maternity leave, I had my little girl. She’s five now, when I went on maternity leave with her, you know, it’s not the same for everyone, but for me, having a kid is like crazy and like it totally my brain rewired. And the idea of going back to a job to work for someone else full time, and then the cost of childcare on top, it just wasn’t sustainable. It was ridiculous. Yeah, so I made the decision to to leave my job while I was on maternity leave to start this business to help people to network. It’s what I’ve always loved to do, and I wanted to get back to doing what I loved. And that part of that was reclaiming my own identity after having, you know, a child, and doing the thing that I really love to do. And but I knew that I couldn’t do full time networking. And again, I knew I couldn’t host networking events. Again, it’s all consuming. So this felt like the perfect solution. And however, the week that my husband took over the parental leave and the week that I started the business was the week that lockdown hit, and everything I know so the idea
Sarah McLusky 18:33
Which for a networking.
Jeni Smith 18:38
And by this point, it was too late, like there was no going back. I’d left my job. Dave was on parental leave. We had a six month old baby. The world was went into lockdown. Originally, at the beginning it was for two weeks.
Sarah McLusky 18:49
Oh god, yeah. Remember that? Maybe like two and then it was six weeks, and then it was like, you know, whatever.
Jeni Smith 18:57
Oh, yes, absolutely, yeah. Crazy. And I think, you know, if I’d known what was going to happen, if I’d known that it was going to be like, two years before networking events could come back, there’s no way that I would have obviously done that. However it all it did. It worked out well. And in that I was able to, I took my knowledge of supporting the business support ecosystem. I took my knowledge of that and instead of trying to sell directly to people, because no one was buying anything, no one was going to network events, I was able to change the business and work directly and sell into the support agencies, which allowed me to help people through that time at no cost to them, while still getting paid. So it meant that I had to change my business model, but actually in a wonderful way. And then now, obviously, as the world reopened, everyone was very anxious and understandably about networking. And there’s a whole generation of young people that came out of the education system that they spent their university time online, or there was people, you know. So there was a lot of things that, you know, I felt like I could really help with, which has been wonderful. And so I’m able to do what I originally planned, but now with lots of other different things mixed into it.
Sarah McLusky 20:18
But it’s quite a journey. Yeah, and just just talking about Yeah, doing multiple networking events a day does make me feel quite tired. Also, as somebody who’s not very good with names and faces, it just all kind of
Jeni Smith 20:33
Names are, names are often like, people’s people like, feel really guilty about not remembering someone’s name. It’s like a an etiquette thing, isn’t it? Yeah, I have got a name badge that I got with my like, logo on it, and it’s like, mag. It’s a magnet one, so it doesn’t wreck my clothes. So I wear that when I go networking, so that other people feel more comfortable, yeah, and so if everyone did that, we’d all be fine.
Sarah McLusky 20:55
I know I’m a big fan of name badges. I know not everybody likes them, but I’m like, no, no, let’s all I’ve made name badges
Jeni Smith 21:03
I’m the same
Sarah McLusky 21:05
But, yeah, certainly. I mean, even within, it’s interesting hearing you talk about there the the way that you work, and there are definitely people like you, if any. So I’m thinking, just thinking, if anybody’s listening, you’re, what you do is like, almost, you’re like a very you know, could there be another I’m not sure there could be another person exactly what you do, but there are network coordinators and people in universities who do things like brokering those relationships between universities and businesses, or universities and charities or partner organization, you know, when you’re talking about impact and that sort of thing. So I think a lot of those skills are really relevant in lots of other jobs in this world.
Jeni Smith 21:51
Yeah, there’s a lot of people who naturally connect to others. They’re just like, natural connectors. They see, they can see, they’ll speak to someone like, oh, you need to speak to that person. And often they end up in job roles like that, where they can, you know, they can, they can use that ability. But sometimes people who are just, you know, they their jobs got nothing to do with that, but they do that naturally for colleagues anyway. And they’re invaluable when you find them people. But I think, and it can be something that can be taught. And I think often we think of networking as very transactional in that we have to go and like, What can I get from this? Or for academics as well, often it can feel quite like it’s a quite a commercial activity, and they’ve got to go and sell themselves, or they’ve got to go and sell impress people. And you know when I do workshops, so obviously, I’ve been doing networking workshops for the past four or five years, and I use Slido quite often. It’s like an interactive tool. And I always ask at the beginning of the like little warm up. I’ll ask people, what’s your biggest barrier, or what puts you off, or what don’t you like about networking? And last year, I analyzed all the results that I got, because it’s all anonymous, and there was over there was 3000 responses, and I wanted to see if there was a difference between what business people’s barriers were and what academics barriers were. And basically, long story short, there was absolutely no difference whatsoever. And it all came the barriers all came down to this sense of either I don’t know what to do, so I don’t know, like, how to act in these environments. And I’m, you know, it’s this fear of judgment and feel of this vulnerable, this vulnerability, this fear of social rejection we all have, and I don’t know what to say. So, like, I don’t know how to engage in small talk. I don’t know how to initiate a conversation or what to say to people. But the big one was this, I don’t know enough to be there. So in academia especially, I think there’s a sense of, unless I have all the answers, I’m not. I’m, you know, I’m, I shouldn’t be in the room, and that’s literally the opposite of what networking is for. Like, the reason to go networking is to learn. So the idea of not going because you don’t know enough, it’s like not going to school because I don’t know the alphabet. Like, the reason you go to school is to learn the alphabet. The reason that we go networking is to learn, or to look for ways that we can add value to each other rather than taking so there’s, there’s a lot of people who naturally do go out and just are inquisitive, and they’ll ask questions, and they’ll look for ways that they can connect people that are existing in their networks to new people or their colleagues and but anyone, I genuinely do think that anyone can, can switch. It’s a mindset, switch that mindset onto adding value to others, being just open to learning and asking questions and but like you say, the universities, especially, they have people there who are there to facilitate. And act as that bridge? Yeah, to help. Do you know to take them along to events? Or to connect them with the right people that they can then collaborate with, or, you know, work with on, you know, it could be co creation, anything.
Sarah McLusky 25:09
Yeah, yeah. No. It’s really important, as you say, often kind of invisible, but a really important role those people that help you to be and connect and everything like that. Well, I’m sure that in the years you’ve been doing this, you’ve maybe got a couple of things you’re proud of, maybe stories about things that have come or
Jeni Smith 25:30
The best one, the one that I always Yeah, the one I always do is I that I connected two people together once, and they went on to get married and have babies. So
Sarah McLusky 25:41
Connected them at a professional event?
Jeni Smith 25:43
Well I met them both professionally. But I just, I was like, Oh, you need to meet this, this woman, yeah, and knowing her. And then I just knew and, like, they’ve got like, three babies now. So I’ve created life, basically. So
Sarah McLusky 25:57
Maybe you’ve got an alternative career in, like, dating.
Jeni Smith 26:00
I really think I could, you know, I could totally do that. And in a more professional context onto loads of things. You know, there’s loads of there was a strategy I did for someone years ago, and I saw her recently, and she was like, You do realize that, because she’s really, she’s niched into a specific sector, she’s really successful in it. And she said, You do realize that I’m only in the sector because you told me to. And I was like, what? She’s like, when you did that strategy for me, it was a fully funded strategy. Again, I try and tap into a lot of funded opportunities that are out there to help, especially smaller or startup businesses. And yeah, and she ended up going down that path that was like, I feel like this is a good sector for you. And then now she’s doing, like, international stuff. She’s doing absolutely amazing so often, often, little things are, you know, you’ll introduce two people that will go on. The best ones are, often, it’s not like a direct, I bought this off this person. That’s nice and that’s lovely. It’s more the collaborations that come or the you know in academia, especially you know, you connect two people and or you’ll highlight something, or tell them about an event, and they go to it, and then that leads to collaborating on a paper or some a research project. Or they end up working together, or bringing their two worlds together to create something even like better or something new that, like, gives me so much joy, and I find it so exciting, because you just don’t know where these conversations lead to. So yeah, they’re always they’re always wonderful, but often, like people, they’ll pop up, like, like, I say, like, a year later, or six months or six sometimes six years later, they’re like, oh, remember, you told me about this person. Well, we’re now doing X, Y and Z or it’s like, Oh, that’s amazing. And again, I get to feel like I’m part of that. Oh, anyone who I do a workshop for, and then they’ll pop up on LinkedIn with a little message, and they’ll be like, Oh, Jeni, I want to let you know that I went to this networking event and this happened, and, you know, no one died, and it was fine, and I actually really enjoyed it. And I’m like, get in, that’s amazing. And you can just, you can tell that they’re proud of themselves, and I’m really proud of them as well, to especially that first step. So, yeah, that’s really good as well.
Sarah McLusky 28:18
Oh I’m really satisfying when you hear those stories that come back round, but what you’ve done has made a difference.
Jeni Smith 28:24
Yeah, just it changes lives. And I think again, in in academia, especially because the research that then people go on to do and the knowledge that they create, it genuinely change. It can change the world. It’s It’s amazing. Absolutely blows my mind. So, yeah, it is brilliant.
Sarah McLusky 28:41
Oh, but I’m sure there are some things though, that have been a little sticky along the way. So what have been big challenges for you?
Jeni Smith 28:48
Oh that’s a good question. I think you know when I was, especially when I was first starting out in networking, like how to articulate that and how to express and communicate it in an effective way that was taken seriously. And as a as a person who’s naturally quite excitable, and like I’m quite full of energy, and my presentation style, like, I like to use puppets and props, and it’s fun and it’s but to try and get that, try and get that across, but equally with credibility and giving credibility to networking as a whole. That seemed quite as quite a fluffy thing. Um, I think that that was a bit of a struggle, especially at the beginning. Honestly, since starting the PhD, it’s given me the words to be able to express and to identify phenomenon that I’ve witnessed and lived for for 20 years, but I didn’t know the words to explain them. If that makes sense
Sarah McLusky 29:46
That’s really interesting, yeah.
Jeni Smith 29:47
And knowing there’s now, I know that there’s all this research that backs up what I’ve seen and what I’ve witnessed and experienced, I’m able to now come with the receipts and be like, yeah, that this is why, and this is what it’s called. And here’s the academic research to back it up, that has really empowered me a lot, and it’s given me the words and the language and a lot more confidence, I think, so that that’s really, really helped me it’s a big like, learning, development, personal journey, I guess, over the last few years and but that’s played a massive part in that, absolutely.
Sarah McLusky 30:25
That’s really interesting, especially when you’ve come at it. Basically, you’ve kind of learned on the job, and then now you find out that there’s all this theory behind it. Yeah.
Jeni Smith 30:34
Honestly, I read all the time, like, especially at the beginning, like, homophily is one of my favorite things, like words, and it basically means that people who are similar are attracted. It’s birds of a feather flockj together. Yeah, and, and I witnessed it and seen it. I didn’t know that there was a word or a phenomenon or a construct or all these things. So I would read like a paper or something. I’ll be like, that’s what I’ve seen. And like, all these real life kind of experiences would run through my brain to like, and they bring it to life. So I think I’m definitely someone who I think I would have struggled going straight like through the education system, traditionally, like, you know, your undergrad, your masters, your PhD. I needed the the the lived kind of experience first, and then that’s really helped me to one it’s helped me to, obviously, find my passion and what I loved, and then now getting the language and the words and the evidence to back it up. It’s brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
Sarah McLusky 31:36
Oh, that’s really, really interesting. Yeah. And well, so a question I do like to ask all of my guests is, if they had a magic wand, what would they change about the world that they work in?
Jeni Smith 31:47
Oh the egos. Oh the egos. They’re so fragile. Sarah, I think Do you know a big thing for me that like it’s coming out of my it’s coming out of my research as well. Like, in order for people to work together and effectively network and build relationships with others and externally, they first need to have a good relationship with themselves. And I think there’s, there’s a lot of the way that people, I think, in, and this is business and academia. This is both. They both look for a lot of external validation, not everyone, obviously, but you know, it happens quite a lot and and that really impacts um, what success looks like. So in business, success often is, is taking on investment, which is just debt, it’s creating jobs, which is great, absolutely, but there’s also other ways and means, you know, Spot freelancers equally as, but it’s just not as it’s not as seen as successful. There’s lots of, you know, those kind of thing winning awards, again, things like that. And in academia, it’s obviously very much focused around publications and citations and getting grants again, all of which are absolutely important course. Of course they are. They need to happen. But I think people who are comfortable in their own ability and who have like they know themselves, they don’t feel the need to shout down others. They don’t feel the need to, you know, yeah, they don’t need they’re there to support and lift up rather than try and, like, scramble on top of others. And again, the power dynamics that it creates, sometimes the hierarchies and I would get rid of some with my with my magic wand. That was my magic wand sound. Yeah, yeah, change them. That would be nice.
Sarah McLusky 33:26
Yeah, I can see again, that’s making me think of people that I know who’ve been good leaders. And yeah, thinking of that the way that they focused on supporting other people rather than pushing themselves forward. Really interesting stuff
Jeni Smith 34:05
It is, yeah, it’s fascinating.
Sarah McLusky 34:07
Yeah. Oh, well, I’m sure we could go on for ages and ages, and as we’ve already talked, I might get you back for another episode just to talk about maybe some of that advice around how people can can do networking a bit better. But if I think, looking at the time, if people would like to find out more about you or the work that you do, where’s the best place to find you? Um,
Jeni Smith 34:29
LinkedIn is dead, easy. You know, you can easily find me on that just J E N I Smith, um, or the website, um, it’s got loads of information. There’s loads of free stuff as well, like downloads and videos and tips and stuff as well. I try and like share all my knowledge for some reason, then people want to pay me for it, which is wonderful, but there’s loads of free stuff on there, so that’s just N E T K N O .co.uk, so netkno.co.uk
Sarah McLusky 34:30
Great. I’ll get the links for that, as put it in the show notes
Jeni Smith 34:56
Actually. Do you know what? Sarah, I’m totally lying to. It netkno. Is it netkno.com. I can’t even remember my own what’s my email address. I’m gonna genuinesly have to go and look It’s .co.uk? We’re fine with co.uk. Lovely. Double check.
Sarah McLusky 35:16
I’ll make sure the one I’ve got in the show notes is the right one. So, yeah.
Jeni Smith 35:20
Otherwise, who knows? Yeah, thanks so much for having me Sarah
Sarah McLusky 35:25
You’re very welcome. Thanks for coming. Thanks for listening to Research Adjacent. If you’re listening in a podcast app, please check your subscribed and then use the links in the episode description to find full show notes and follow the podcast on LinkedIn or Instagram. You can also find all the links and other episodes at www.researchadjacent.com. Research Adjacent is presented and produced by Sarah McLusky, and the theme music is by Lemon Music Studios on Pixabay. And you, yes you, get a big gold star for listening right to the end. See you next time.
