Helen Riding, NHS Research Manager (Episode 57) | Helen helps make research easier so that more patients can benefit
For this episode of the Research Adjacent podcast Sarah is talking to Helen Riding. Helen is a Primary Care Research Manager for the North of England Commissioning Support Unit and coordinator for the Research and Development Forum.
Expert glue
Helen’s day to day job is all about helping make research happen. That might mean connecting academics with primary care partners, helping with ethical approvals or supporting research dissemination. She specialises in primary care which in the UK means family GPs and community healthcare, rather than hospital treatment.
“One of my managers always talks about our role as very much being that expert glue, bringing all the different stakeholders together. I think the NHS can be quite intimidating.”
From interest to employment
Helen has been interested in research for a long time. She remembers her mum volunteering to be part of a clinical trial when she was young and she has been a research participant herself. She only began thinking of it as a potential job after she trained as a midwife.
“When I was working in the hospital, I can remember that I was always very interested in watching what the research midwives were doing, and I was always quite intrigued with their job.”
She decided to look into research-related roles and soon landed a job as research facilitator working for the Primary Care Trust.
“It was quite a big jump. And I think one of the main things was the complexity of the research world, the use of acronyms. It can be quite intimidating.”
Studying for a Master’s in Clinical Research with Leadership helped her to both get her head around the terminology and also, in doing her own dissertation research, helped her understand the view from both sides of the fence. Her Master’s dissertation explored why taking part in research has tangible benefits for everyone involved.
“There is a lot of evidence emerging that research activity is better for patient outcomes, that it can reduce mortality, that it’s a benefit for the staff and the organizations. It helps improve retention.”
Career U-turns
Helen’s Masters is a particularly proud achievement as she is a latecomer to higher education and never considered herself particularly academic. In fact she spent the first 10 years of her career working as a graphic design and journalism – first for local newspapers in Newcastle upon Tyne, then for the BBC in London. It was only redundancy that led her back to studying as she retrained to be a midwife.
“I think I like the challenge of moving into a new role, and I think I am led by doing something that I enjoy and find interesting, and I’ve got to be passionate about whatever I’m doing.”
Passionate about the benefits of research
And Helen is certainly passionate about research. She is particularly driven by democratising research and making sure that everyone has the opportunity to take part in research. She would love there to be more support on the ground to enable GP practices to take part in research as the evidence shows that it improves the organisation’s performance as well as patient outcomes.
“It’s really important that all patients, never mind where you live, get that chance to take part in research. Research should be delivered where there’s a need. And sometimes you have to think about different delivery models in different areas.”
And it is improving things for patients that keeps Helen motivated.
“You know, I might be on a day to day basis, dealing with academics, dealing with other primary care colleagues. But at the end of all of that, there is a patient who is hopefully getting access to a research study which may offer them a new treatment.”
Find out more
- Connect with Helen on LinkedIn, X or ResearchGate
- Find out about the NECS and the Research and Development Forum
- Read a recent paper on how being research-active improves healthcare
Theme music by Lemon Music Studios from Pixabay
Episode Transcript
Helen Riding 00:00
One of my managers always talks about our role as very much being that expert glue, bringing all the different stakeholders together. I think the NHS can be quite intimidating. You know, I might be on a day to day basis, dealing with academics, dealing with other primary care colleagues. But at the end of all of that, there is a patient who is hopefully getting access to a research study which may offer them a new treatment. There is a lot of evidence emerging that research activity is better for patient outcomes, that it can reduce mortality, that it’s a benefit for the staff and the organizations. It helps improve retention.
Sarah McLusky 00:50
Hello there. I’m Sarah McLusky, and this is Research Adjacent. Each episode, I talk to amazing research-adjacent professionals about what they do and why it makes a difference. Keep listening to find out why we think the research-adjacent space is where the real magic happens. Hello there, and welcome to episode 57 of Research Adjacent. It’s a special episode for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it’s the last regular episode of 2024 if you can believe that. Next time, we’ll round out the year with my annual review episode. For that one, I’d love to include comments or feedback from you. So if you go to the show notes, you can find links to send me an email or a voice note. Feel free to send general feedback, tell me about your favorite episode this year, or let me know what you’d like to hear about next year. But the main reason that this is a special episode is because it was recorded in person, and it features my friend Helen Riding. Now although I mainly know Helen as a festival, running and wild swimming buddy, she is also research-adjacent, something that we usually never talk about. Helen is an NHS research manager. She works for the North of England Commissioning Support Unit, where she facilitates research in primary care, primary care being GPs and community healthcare. That work can cover anything from planning and ethical approval to helping disseminate research findings. She also coordinates the national Research and Development Forum, a network for healthcare research managers. In this episode, we talk about how she found her way to this work via detours in midwifery and graphic design, the challenges of being a mature student, the unexpected ways that everyone benefits from research and why she always tries to keep the patient at the heart of what she does. Listen on to hear Helen’s story. Well, this feels like a very special episode of Research Adjacent today, because not only am I recording in person for the first time in my home office, but I’m doing it with a very good friend. So welcome along to the podcast Helen Riding.
Helen Riding 02:53
Thank you very much for the invite to come along to the podcast today.
Sarah McLusky 02:56
Yeah. Sowe’re going to do something today, Helen, actually, that we don’t do very often do we, which is talk about work. So although we’ve been friends for probably just about, like, 15 years or something now and despite the fact that we we work in very similar worlds, we don’t talk about work very much. So thank you so much for coming along. And I wonder if we could begin just by hearing a bit about what it is that you do.
Helen Riding 03:19
Yeah so I am currently, I work as a research manager for North of England Commissioning Support Unit in the North East and North Cumbria. So I help support the development of primary care research and also deliver research and evaluations as well. I also have 50% ofmy time I also work for the Research and Development Forum, which is a national organization that supports R and D managers and directors across the UK.
Sarah McLusky 04:00
It’s really interesting that your role is as a research manager, which is a job title I think a lot of people will be really familiar with, but your role is based within the NHS, rather than within a university. And so how does your role kind of bring research together? Who do you work with? What sorts of things are you doing on a day to day basis?
Helen Riding 04:23
So I kind of, I work very much trying to bring the different stakeholders together in order to bring research to the patient. So my role is not doing the research. Generally, it’s more helping support the researchers who are wanting to access primary care locations, working with the academics to help kind of develop research ideas, signposting academics to other organizations that work supporting research, such as the National Institute for Health Research. One of my managers always talks about our role as very much being that expert glue, bringing all the different stakeholders together to help because it can be quite I think the NHS can be quite intimidating landscape. There’s lots of different organizations, whether it’s in trusts or primary care. There’s different locations. So I think my role, I see, is very much trying to make that complex process easier for whether it be other NHS colleagues or academics who are wanting to undertake research in the NHS.
Sarah McLusky 05:49
Yeah I love that image there of being the glue that kind of holds it together. Because that often comes up a lot in these kind of research-adjacent roles, is that they’re that connection between all these different parts. So generally, what happens is if somebody, say, in a university has got a research project that they want to test out in a primary care setting. So for people who maybe don’t know the terminology, primary care is like GPs, family doctors, frontline kind of rather than hospitals and consultants and that side of thing. Yeah, yeah. Just so to make sure anybody listening knows the terminology, so they would come along to you and what do you help to, like, introduce them to doctors that are willing to take part in that research, or patients.
Helen Riding 06:32
It can be at any stage of that research. Generally, my role. I’m the governance lead and the team. So a lot of the time, I’m approached by researchers who are at that planning stage. They’re currently looking to apply for ethical approval. So I help support them through that process, because that, again, can be quite a complex process. So I can help them understand what they need to do to ensure that they can contact the primary care, and they’ve got the necessary assurances to do that. But it can also be at the end as well, where they’ve actually undertook their research, and we then help support them in potentially disseminating the findings from that research to the commissioners who would benefit from being aware of that the findings from that research And the central part that delivery side, we can help support that, but sometimes we also sign posts to the National Institute for Health and Care research teams who also help support the delivery of the larger studies.
Sarah McLusky 07:56
Really interesting. So, yeah, it’s interesting there that you say that as well, as you know, helping the research to happen. Essentially, there’s also that involvement in that, that dissemination piece as well, and helping to make sure that the research gets to the right people and the people who might be able to use it. Because I know that that’s certainly one of the things so many people in this area are involved in, is is like the research that kind of almost happens over here, but that’s not the people who are actually going to use it. How do you fill those gaps in the middle and get it to the people who could actually potentially use it at the end of the day? So what sorts of things do you do to help with that dissemination side of things?
Helen Riding 08:36
So our team work with local organizations. We have a newsletter, which we send out regularly, which often shares the findings of the research. We have social media channels. We also have groups of research interested primary care staff as well. And in the past, we’ve had events as well where staff from across the area can come together and learn about projects that have been delivered in the area.
Sarah McLusky 09:16
Sounds really valuable. So yeah, sounds like if there’s anybody listening who’s in that area of of research, and just really useful group of people to be connected to. So you mentioned there that you do two different roles all rolled into one the other one. We talked a lot about the research manager role. Tell us a bit more about the coordinator role that you’ve got.
Helen Riding 09:36
Yeah, so I work as a coordinator for the Research and Development Forum. So that is a national organization that helps support R and D teams across the UK. So my role is quite wide and varied. We have a number of working groups that help support and I also meet with stakeholders. It’s actually it’s a really interesting role, because I get to see more of that kind of the national policy drivers and those national conversations that that I think are really interesting to be part of. I also help support the Hive Mind, which is a really interesting group, which is a number of it’s for R and D staff to come together monthly. There’s also a circulation email list. You know, we’ve got nearly 250 members of that group. And we’ve got a monthly Zoom call as well. And that’s amazing, because you hear really what’s going on around the UK, and you get to hear of the challenges and the great work that’s going on around the country
Sarah McLusky 10:51
That sounds like really useful for sharing that best practice and finding out what everybody’s up to.
Helen Riding 10:55
Yeah, absolutely.
Sarah McLusky 10:57
So obviously, I know a bit about your work history, and we’re going to come into that. But how did you get into doing this work in the first place? What was it that appealed?
Helen Riding 11:07
Well I was working as a midwife, and so I’ve got a clinical background as a midwife, so I when I was working in the hospital, I can always remember that I was always very interested in watching what the research midwives were doing. I was always quite intrigued with their job, their role. So when I was a midwife, I decided to start looking at research roles, and I discovered there was a role as a research facilitator, now working for the Primary Care Trust, and it was helping support and GP practices in Newcastle and North Tyneside. So I lived in North Tyneside. I grew up in the West end of Newcastle, and I thought, I know these areas really well. I know the needs. I’ve got that clinical background. I understand the NHS. I also have a passion for research, so I thought I’d apply, and the rest is history. And since then, I’ve moved into being a research manager, yeah, and then working with kind of the national organization as well.
Sarah McLusky 12:24
And was it, was it a big jump, going from being a midwife into this research facilitation role? Were there particular skills that you needed to develop?
Helen Riding 12:34
Yeah, I think, I think it was quite a big jump. And I think one of the main things was the complexity of the research world. I think the use of acronyms,
Sarah McLusky 12:51
Oh yeah.
Helen Riding 12:52
I think everyone in the research world. I think when you move into it, it is, it can be quite intimidating, because you’re in meetings and all these acronyms are being used, and often they have a completely different meaning and other Yeah, and it takes quite a long time to get used to them all. So I can remember when I first came in feeling that was quite difficult change to make, but I think ultimately, I mean, our team is great. We’ve got various backgrounds in clinical roles, and I think that that variety and that clinical role background is really beneficial, because you really understand how working day to day in the NHS works in the challenges of being able to deliver research when you are working on the front line.
Sarah McLusky 13:54
Yeah and you did a masters to help you get your head around all the research side of things.
Helen Riding 13:59
Yeah, yeah. So, so, yeah. So I did my obviously, I did a degree to become a midwife, and when I did that, I was a mature student. But then once I started my role in research, I was very fortunate to be offered the opportunity to undertake a Master’s in clinical research with leadership. So, yes, so I did that back in 2017 Well, well, I completed it in 2017 it took me between 2012 and 2017 because I did have to have a bit of a maternity leave break in the middle of all of that. But I got there in the end. So yeah, so that was really interesting, because until that point I’d been on, I talk, kind of talk about it, one side of the fence, so I was the, so I was the, the person helping support, people looking for approvals, looking for governance advice, and then through doing that qualification, I got a much broader understanding of being the researcher, because I had to do my dissertation, and as part of that, I had to do the the ethics approval and the application to the health research authority. So it was really interesting to understand from the other side of the fence what that is like. So I think when I came out of doing that masters, I think the benefit was that I’ve got that appreciation of that view from both sides.
Sarah McLusky 15:37
Yeah I can definitely see how that would be useful to give you that different perspective on it. So one thing that I’ve found really interesting, when I’ve been out there looking for things like jobs as research managers, you never see the NHS jobs. So it’s almost like, to me, it seems like it’s the secret underworld that you know, that people might not know about. So how do like, how would people get into doing this kind of work, where the jobs advertised? What kinds of roles are they looking for?
Helen Riding 16:07
Generally, I think you would find a lot of these roles through NHS Jobs website, and there’s a variety of roles. So there’s a lot of roles around kind of research support officers, research facilitators, which are seen as more that entry level role. Then you’ve got the research managers. You’ve got also, so, so you’ve got the primary care, but then you’ve got the trusts as well, where you have more you might have managers that specialize in governance or managers that specialize in finance or contracting and funding, although those roles are more specific to trusts. So in primary care, it’s more the research coordinators, the research managers, but generally it would be through NHS jobs you would discover those.
Sarah McLusky 17:09
Well that’s a place to look for anybody who is thinking of jobs along these lines. So to maybe come back now a bit more to you and your story, rather than the job even becoming a midwife was, was a bit of a career U-turn for you, wasn’t it? Do you want to tell us a little bit about the whole trajectory of how you’ve ended up where you are now?
Helen Riding 17:31
Yeah, so I think I’m quite an expert in career changes. So when I first went to I went to college, I qualified with a Higher National Diploma in newspaper design. So I initially qualified as a graphic designer. I worked at the Newcastle Chronicle and Journal, and then I was very lucky, and I got the opportunity to go and work for the BBC in London. So I worked as a with I worked as a designer on the very at that point. This was in the 90s. It was very much when the BBC News website was stopped. So it was a really exciting time. So I worked for the BBC for quite a few years, I also dipped my toe in a bit of broadcast journalism as well, a bit of writing. But then the BBC, as it does, had a reorganization, and I was made redundant. But so I had the decision to what I was going to do next, and I think it was either go traveling or move into another role. And I’d always wanted to be a midwife. It was something that really interested me, so I did some research and decided to go down the role of retraining as a midwife,
Sarah McLusky 19:07
And here we are now. So that’s really dramatic changes. I think a lot of people, when they think about making career changes, it’s maybe like they do the similar job, but they do it, you know, in university, and then they do it in a company, you know, or something like that, but you’ve done really dramatic changes in what you do. How have you found that? Is that something do you enjoy just getting stuck into something really new, or at times, has it been a real mindset challenge
Helen Riding 19:42
I think it’s been a bit of both. I think I like the challenge of moving into a new role. I think I am led by doing something that I enjoy and find interesting, and I’ve got to be passionate about whatever I’m doing. So I think it is challenging, but I think I’ve been quite fortunate that, for example, moving from being made redundant into being a midwife, I had funding from the redundancy, and there was also so sometimes when you retrain, I don’t know if it’s the same now, but it used to be, if you were doing a kind of an NHS training course for midwifery or to be a nurse or to be a physio, there was grants and funding available to help you through that. I don’t know if it’s the same now, it was quite a long time ago. I’ve also kind of looked for other funding. So when I was doing my Midwifery, I wanted to do my elective abroad. I was really wanting to go and understand midwifery practice elsewhere, so I applied for a wellbeing of women bursary, and I was successful on getting that. So I started to understand the advantages of looking at, looking at the research angle and and applying for funding and the benefit that that can bring. And I think I just like kind of developing. It’s like, like that, lifelong learning, I think, and I think the research, it’s something that’s always interested me. I’ve been a research participant myself. My family members have been research participants. My mum had cancer, and when I was young, she signed up for a research study. So I’ve always felt that it’s important that everybody gets equal access to research. So I think when there was an opportunity, particularly helping support the area where I grew up, in Newcastle, and ensuring that population got access to research. That was something that I really wanted to do, and I felt was really important. It’s something that I never forget, is that, you know, I might be on a day to day basis dealing with academics, dealing with other primary care colleagues, but at the end of all of that, there is a patient who is hopefully getting access to a research study which may offer them a new treatment, some groundbreaking approach. And yeah, and that’s it,
Sarah McLusky 22:39
Yeah. And ultimately, do you think that’s what’s motivated you? As you say, even if it’s not front and centre every day that’s there at the back of your head?
Helen Riding 22:48
Yeah definitely definitely, I think so. I think it’s a really I think you can get wrapped up in the bureaucracy of research, but at the end of the day, my job is to make it easier for research to happen in the NHS because it’s sometimes not that easy. So I think, yeah, I always keep that kind of main aim to make sure the patients can get access to research.
Sarah McLusky 23:13
Yeah, fantastic. So thinking back over your career, whether it’s the work that you do now, or whether it’s all the way back to when you were at the BBC, I wonder if you might like to give us an example or two. Maybe, maybe what you’ve said there leads you onto it nicely, a couple of examples of things you’ve done that you’re really proud of.
Helen Riding 23:33
I think the main one is my Masters. I think, as I’ve said, I grew up in the west end of Newcastle, and I think I’ve never been particularly academic. Obviously, I came to academic studies later in life, so I think to to do, to complete my Masters. I’m really proud of that that’s been disseminated widely, locally and at national conferences. There’s actually been some more national work done that built on what I did in my Masters, not because of what I did, but just because it was an important
Sarah McLusky 24:16
What was the topic?
Helen Riding 24:17
So the topic I was looking at kind of research activity in primary care and the quality indicators, because there is a lot of evidence emerging that research activity is better for patient outcomes, that it can reduce mortality, that it’s a benefit for the staff and the organizations. It helps improve retention. And there wasn’t any evidence at that time in primary care. So what I wanted to do was speak to primary care staff, GPS and practice managers, to understand how they felt that taking part in research would potentially impact the quality in the care that they provide. So yeah, and like, since then, there’s been a large NIHR study that’s the findings were released in the last year. And yeah, and that evidence continues to grow around that kind of outcome of quality
Sarah McLusky 25:27
That’s really interesting, that yeah, that even that just taking part in research has benefits for patients and staff. And yeah, regardless, almost of what it is, I wonder if it’s that sense of feeling that you’re doing something, you know, trying to make things better.
Helen Riding 25:45
Yeah, definitely, I think so. I think there’s so many benefits, and I think the majority of staff are very aware of those benefits, and want to do their best to ensure that patients can get access to that. And it’s good to see that the evidence is growing around that overall benefit to the organization and patients.
Sarah McLusky 26:11
Yeah brilliant, really important topic, and any other things you’ve done that you’re particularly proud of?
Helen Riding 26:17
Yeah, so I think it’s seeing the the small research ideas that then go on to develop into the larger studies. So I can remember back in 2016 being sat in a in a small room in a GP surgery having discussions about a potential study investigating COPD, and that has now, after a few years and a few different funding streams, that’s now developed into a large NIHR grant, and that’s currently being delivered in the North East and North Cumbria, and that’s great to see, because there’s some conditions, obviously the North East and North Cumbria is a huge area, but the area has high levels of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and I think it’s a really important topic. So it’s really good that that project is now really a significant project that’s been funded.
Sarah McLusky 27:24
Fantastic, yeah, seeing how things grow over time, always that satisfaction of seeing your baby released out into the world? Yeah, brilliant. I’m sure, though, that your life isn’t without its challenges. So what are some of the biggest hurdles that you’ve had to overcome?
Helen Riding 27:43
I think I touched on that just before. I think one of my major hurdles was becoming a mature student in my early 30s, when I got made redundant. And I think that was a challenge, because I don’t come from a family with a strong academic background, and I’ve often felt that imposter syndrome, I think, particularly in the research world. But I think as I’ve got more experienced and I undertook my Masters, and my confidence grew. I think I don’t experience that that much now, but I think at the time, obviously going through a redundancy is quite stressful, quite upsetting, and then suddenly finding yourself as a mature student, having to write academically is quite challenging. And, yeah, and I think that was probably my main challenge over the years, but I think there’s been lots of others, but that’s
Sarah McLusky 28:58
That’s a pretty that’s a pretty big challenge, though, as you see both overcoming the mindset stuff around the imposter experiences, and then also, like you say, learning, particularly coming from writing in a journalistic way to suddenly having to write in an academic way, which I know from the work I do, is very different. So, so that’s both, you know, mindset stuff and skill stuff going along. So it’s pretty, pretty big hurdle to overcome, but, but yeah, but here you are.
Helen Riding 29:27
Yeah, yeah, definitely that journalistic to academic is really it’s a really interesting aspect, because I really found that, particularly when I was writing for my dissertation, because I would go definitely down the more journalistic side of writing, and it took a while to get my head around that academic style, which I still don’t think I’ve got my head around. Well, I don’t think I ever will
Sarah McLusky 29:55
To be honest, I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing, yeah, because, you know, academic writing is challenging, in and of itself at times. So yeah, especially when you want people, like patients, to be able to understand the projects that you’re working on. So yeah, well, with that, maybe I’d like to ask you, as I do all my guests, if you had a magic wand, what would you change about the world that you work in?
Helen Riding 30:24
There may be many things. So I think, as we discussed, there’s lots of evidence that research has a positive impact. So, and this goes back to my Masters as well. I think there’s a few things that it would be great to see happen in order to help NHS organizations deliver research. I think one thing that was a strong finding from my Masters is the dedicated staff helping support research. I think the day job in the NHS so stressful, particularly in general practice, so often research is the least priority, which is quite right, because, you know, they’ve got a lot to do, but I think if there is dedicated staff that could potentially allow research to be delivered in those practices, which I think would be great. And there is examples locally that’s starting to happen, particularly in more deprived practices in the North East, which is great to see, and also kind of ensuring that the NHS as a whole is supporting that development of a research culture, and have it kind of embedded in what’s expected of organizations that have it in there, and more recently, it’s been added in the CQC ratings as well. So that’s the Care Quality Commission. Yeah, research is recognized within the ratings that they provide. And I think something I’ve also touched on earlier about equity of access. I think for me, it’s really important that all patients, never mind where you live. Do get that chance to take part in research? And I think there’s a lot of work ongoing to look at how you know you’re in a quite affluent area, but you’re also in a deprived area. And often research should be delivered where there’s a need. And sometimes you have to think about different delivery models in different areas. And I think going back to that embedded staff having that to ensure that they’ve got the support necessary to do that.
Sarah McLusky 32:08
CQC? Yeah oh, it sounds like though as well, all your examples there still leading to your north star of doing things which make a difference for real people in the real world. Patients, fantastic. Well, it just remains to say thank you very much for coming along, having a chat. If people want to find out more about the work you do, or get in touch, where’s the best place to track you down?
Helen Riding 33:33
So I’m on LinkedIn, Helen Riding. I’m also on X. So @RidingHelen, yeah, and those, and I’m sure you can put links in the notes.
Sarah McLusky 33:44
I will. I’ll put those links in the show notes. People can find you there. So thank you very much. It’s been interesting for me just to hear a bit more about what you do. Yeah, anything else?
Helen Riding 33:54
Thank you very much for inviting me along today.
Sarah McLusky 33:59 Thanks for listening to Research Adjacent. If you’re listening in a podcast app, please check your subscribed and then use the links in the episode description to find full show notes and to follow the podcast on LinkedIn or Instagram. You can also find all the links and other episodes at www.researchadjacent.com. Research Adjacent is presented and produced by Sarah McLusky, and the theme music is by Lemon Music Studios on Pixabay. And you, yes you, get a big gold star for listening right to the end. See you next time you.
